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Russ vs KD Round 1: Who ya got?


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Who else can create on the Rockets besides Harden? Answer is no one. Similar to OKC. They have more shooters, sure but less finishers near paint.

 

Capella makes like 75% of dunks lol

Less finishers in the paint?

 

Pal, they space the floor better than any team in the NBA. Opens up the lane for Harden and gives him more options to kick too.

 

They have Ariza, Anderson and Gordon who are all better spot up options than anyone on okc. OkC has no shooters, and one other guy who can create his own look.

 

Beverly is a fine PG for the record and a decent play maker and a greatly improved outside shooter. That team is full of quality nba players. Certainly not a game changer offensively but he's a pretty good nba regular. OkC has a bunch of guys who shouldn't even be in an nba rotation playing big minutes.

 

This team was built perfectly to run this system.

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James is #1 when he wants to be. Which is why I dislike him, guy just doesn't try half the time.

KD tried every game and he has showed you watch he can do with a real team around him. He isn't forced to shoot contested shots all the time. He's clear number 2 IMO

Russel and garden fall under same category, their stat guys and that's all they'll ever be. When you have the ball every possession down the court odds are you'll assist more and score more and rebounds come easier as well when your team shoots at the pace both rockets thunder shoot. Ball hogs is the term we used in highschool. There was always that one guy had to have the ball. That's Westbrook and harden.

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That travel was great lol.

 

People pointing to FG% as if it's some end all stat is hilarious; if you think assists and rebounds are just counting stats (which is absurd in it's own sense but OK), and you prescribe to FG% or tFG% being some indicator of offensive supremacy you are misguided. Here is the list of the top 20 players in tFG%:

 

1. Rudy Gobert • UTA .684
2. Montrezl Harrell • HOU .671
3. DeAndre Jordan • LAC .663
4. Kevin Durant • GSW .659
5. Nikola Jokic • DEN .650
6. Otto Porter • WAS .643
7. Kyle Lowry • TOR .642
8. Jae Crowder • BOS .639
9. Dwight Howard • ATL .639
10. Kawhi Leonard • SAS .626
11. George Hill • UTA .626
12. Steven Adams • OKC .626
13. Stephen Curry • GSW .625
14. Clint Capela • HOU .619
15. Enes Kanter • OKC .618
16. Isaiah Thomas • BOS .617
17. Cody Zeller • CHO .616
18. Giannis Antetokounmpo • MIL .614
19. James Harden • HOU .613
20. Nick Young • LAL .611

 

Some great players on the list sure, but also some absolute bums.

 

In advanced metrics:

 

Russell ranks 1st in VORP (similar to MLB WAR), here are the top 10 players in VORP:

 

Value Over Replacement Player
1. Russell Westbrook • OKC 6.1
2. James Harden • HOU 5.1
3. Giannis Antetokounmpo • MIL 4.0
4. Kevin Durant • GSW 3.8
5. Kyle Lowry • TOR 3.6
6. LeBron James • CLE 3.5
7. Chris Paul • LAC 3.5
8. Jimmy Butler • CHI 3.3
9. Kawhi Leonard • SAS 3.2
10. DeMarcus Cousins • SAC 3.0

Which list, tFG%, or VORP, is a better representation of the best players in the NBA?

 

Russell is also 1st in Box Plus/Minus and offensive Box Plus/Minus. 

 

Russell isn't just accumulating stats, he's impacting the outcome of games more than any player in the NBA. While VORP is less perfect than it's MLB equivalent, it's a pretty good indicator of the top players in the league. Russell also ranks 1st in the NBA in efficiency rating. You know what VORP is better than? FG%.

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Usage and value are two very different things and the stats and metrics have a real hard time telling the difference.

How so?

 

VORP is merely a more extensive look into BPM, which takes into account a players impact while on the floor vs off the floor. Usage rate is therefore accounted for, and can actually be used against a player as much as it can be used for a player. For a more formal explanation:

 

"They are all context-sensitive input variables, in that they adjust for the number of opportunities a player had to produce the given stat"

 

"The team's efficiency differential, adjusted for strength of schedule, is known. It is, by definition, the true sum of all players' contributions. BPM is adjusted such that the minute-weighted sum of individual players' BPM ratings on a team equals the team's rating times 120%."

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Lowry gets a lot of looks. He's an important part of the offense.

 

Doesn't mean another player put in that same role couldn't be more valuable and do an even better job.

 

So Player A looks more valuable because he's in a good situation, where Player B is stuck in say Brooklyn.

 

Put Cousins on a contender or say the Rockets with a bunch of three point shooters to spread the floor for him and he becomes a Top 3 player in the league probably.

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Lowry gets a lot of looks. He's an important part of the offense.

 

Doesn't mean another player put in that same role couldn't be more valuable and do an even better job.

 

So Player A looks more valuable because he's in a good situation, where Player B is stuck in say Brooklyn.

 

Put Cousins on a contender or say the Rockets with a bunch of three point shooters to spread the floor for him and he becomes a Top 3 player in the league probably.

Elite players in the NBA can win games with little to no help.

Love Boogie, but I just can't put him up that high because he doesn't impact the game enough from a W/L standpoint. He's better than Love, so don't think I am saying otherwise, but Love had amazing numbers playing for a shit Minnesota team too. It's easier to accumulate on a terrible team than a good one. 

 

Playing for a shit team actually affords you more opportunities. 

 

Also, Lowry is one of the best perimeter defenders in the NBA; which can't be sold short.

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by far the best player in the NBA today. can't wait to see him and Kyrie go at it again in the all-star game

Teammates claiming he doesn't care that he didn't get named the starter in the All-Star game, but he's got to be furious. Should give him a little more fuel for that never ending fire. He was 1st overall among all players in player and coaches voting, but fans had him 3rd at PG in the West alone. Pretty funny.

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When you have the numbers Westbrook has but are not a starter in the ASG that should let him know he doesn't have a lot of friends or fans

To be fair he did get tons of votes. Not as if he was #16 in voting. 

 

He finished behind Steph, who has been the nba darling the past two years and probably the 2nd most popular player in the league after Lebron and Harden who has had arguably an even better year, plays in a bigger market and probably has much less people that dislike him 

 

So not crazy that Russ didnt get voted in but also not indicative that hes hated or anything like that. I think the guys a bit overrated right now but lets not go too far and act like hes awful or not well liked by a lot of fans

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To be fair he did get tons of votes. Not as if he was #16 in voting. 

 

He finished behind Steph, who has been the nba darling the past two years and probably the 2nd most popular player in the league after Lebron and Harden who has had arguably an even better year, plays in a bigger market and probably has much less people that dislike him 

 

So not crazy that Russ didnt get voted in but also not indicative that hes hated or anything like that. I think the guys a bit overrated right now but lets not go too far and act like hes awful or not well liked by a lot of fans

The fans are what cost him. He was the #1 vote getter among his peers. 

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The fans are what cost him. He was the #1 vote getter among his peers. 

But my point was it wasnt like he didnt get tons of fan votes. He got plenty. Harden/Steph just got more, which isnt crazy. Not like he was beaten out by Dwayne Wade (ridiculous he is starting, he wouldnt even be good enough to be a starting guard on the Raptors). He was beaten out by one of the NBA darlings and a guy in James Harden that is the favorite for MVP at the halfway mark (not saying i think hes the mvp or best player but hes the favorite at this point)

 

So point is being behind those guys doesnt show fans dont like him

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But my point was it wasnt like he didnt get tons of fan votes. He got plenty. Harden/Steph just got more, which isnt crazy. Not like he was beaten out by Dwayne Wade (ridiculous he is starting, he wouldnt even be good enough to be a starting guard on the Raptors). He was beaten out by one of the NBA darlings and a guy in James Harden that is the favorite for MVP at the halfway mark (not saying i think hes the mvp or best player but hes the favorite at this point)

 

So point is being behind those guys doesnt show fans dont like him

Dwyane Wade isn't starting, and saying he wouldn't be starting for a team that has the starting SG in the All-Star game and the 2nd best PG in the East right now isn't exactly a knock.

 

Westbrook is the favorite to win the MVP last I checked.

 

We can bet $300 on that, adding an injury stipulation; I'll take Westbrook you take Harden.

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