House healthcare vote today.

[Always Call Heads]

Well, that's what I'm saying.  Revise the way that whole process works.  Put an end to the HMO nonsense.

 

They could definitely revise the penalty so that someone who buys insurance midyear has a higher premium instead of an unenforceable tax burden.

 

More than one way to skin a cat.

You can't put an end to HMOs unless you put an end to the individual health insurance market and put them on Medicare which would be a lot cheaper but not the way anyone wants to do things because it is not profitable for anyone.

[MonkeyF0cker]

You can't put an end to HMOs unless you put an end to the individual health insurance market and put them on Medicare which would be a lot cheaper but not the way anyone wants to do things because it is not profitable for anyone.

 

Sure, you could.  Insurance companies could just state what price/percentage they are willing to pay for certain procedures.  It's not like they don't have a comprehensive list of what they're paying for things now.

 

Would allow flexibility from a bunch of different angles.

[mikeman]

I can't wait till it costs you more than you make a year to insure yourself.  That will be funny.

 

WHo are the people that voluntarily go without health insurance in the USA?  Never once met one.   It's fking suicide.

They are the young and healthy, people with no health problems, who dont go to the dr, in other words you and I  in our early years.  i would say health ins is a bad deal and unnecessary for at least 20% of the population. The point is personal choice, allow us to decide, not govt who's real desire is "misery loves company", or "if I have to pay for it then god damn it you are too".

[gijoe066]

This is going to interesting isn't it but this what America wanted and this is what they will get. That's why we vote. WE have to take the good with the bad. GOOD LUCK!!

[mikeman]

My problem with this and any likely bill, is that it addresses who pays, not what they pay? The prices that are charged are the problem, blood tests that should cost $10 are billed at $150, ct scans that should cost $100 are $1000, etc. I would require health care providers to charge everyone the same negotiated prices that big users(ins co's) pay.

[Always Call Heads]

Sure, you could.  Insurance companies could just state what price/percentage they are willing to pay for certain procedures.  It's not like they don't have a comprehensive list of what they're paying for things now.

 

Would allow flexibility from a bunch of different angles.

That's what they do now. And if the doctor overbills, you are on the hook for it. 

 

We could go to an all cash system but then you would have nobody able to afford cancer treatment.

[MonkeyF0cker]

My problem with this and any likely bill, is that it addresses who pays, not what they pay? The prices that are charged are the problem, blood tests that should cost $10 are billed at $150, ct scans that should cost $100 are $1000, etc. I would require health care providers to charge everyone the same negotiated prices that big users(ins co's) pay.

 

Isn't that Medicare?

[Always Call Heads]

My problem with this and any likely bill, is that it addresses who pays, not what they pay? The prices that are charged are the problem, blood tests that should cost $10 are billed at $150, ct scans that should cost $100 are $1000, etc. I would require health care providers to charge everyone the same negotiated prices that big users(ins co's) pay.

That's because young people and poor are not required to buy insurance and are not covered. You pay $150 for a lab to pay for all the people that do not pay.

[Cop]

We just need to let poor people die. They are a drain on society.

[MonkeyF0cker]

That's what they do now. And if the doctor overbills, you are on the hook for it. 

 

We could go to an all cash system but then you would have nobody able to afford cancer treatment.

 

Not entirely.  You're penalized significantly (if you're covered at all) if you go outside of your plan of providers - which is the main impediment of interstate coverage.

 

There are very few options in the exchanges presently.

[Always Call Heads]

We just need to let poor people die. They are a drain on society.

But then all the poor people would kill the rich people.

[IAG]

I can't wait till it costs you more than you make a year to insure yourself. That will be funny.

 

WHo are the people that voluntarily go without health insurance in the USA? Never once met one. It's fking suicide.

I've known some. They either can't afford, or they a few years shy of Medicare, wealthy, and would rather take their chances than pay 40k per year in premiums (couple) It was instilled in me throughout life by my parents NEVER go without insurance...EVER, and I have never not been covered, but there are plenty who do, and in many cases understandable.

 

I see new plan still requiring people with PEC to be covered, but no limits on premium cost....is that right? Last time I got a quote on a personal plan it was $1600 per month (individual plan) because of prior herniated disc surgery and having being treated for depression. This was RIGHT before ACA took effect. I understand backs and depression are expensive conditions, and after Obamacare law....not plan...allowed me personal coverage at a cost of $500 per month out of pocket which was high, but I got it. When it went to $700 plus this year, I finally took the tax credit, which brought my payment down to $168 per month....that might be too generous for a lower deductible plan... But 1600 month is not right either.

 

Most single woman ..or men for that matter ..don't have that kind of money or savings..even if you do, at 17kin premiums and 10k dollar per year deductibles, they may not for long. if something catastrophic happens, there is no Medicaid coverage in many states, so basically they are done.

 

NY Senator just said that 50-64 year olds will get clobbered.If 64 making 26k per year, premiums will go from approx 1700 to 13k per year.

If people are forced to spend their savings on health care premiums and deductibles, many won't have healthcare or will spend all their savings, and then will be broke when they get old, and Medicaid will be forced to pick up the 100k year skilled nursing costs.

 

Agree with Monkey OC should be tweaked instead of completely scrapped. Yes HC is an entitlement, but it's one that can be justified more than most to me...

 

Curious,..Cop are you going to turn down your Medicare benefits as soon as you reach the amount you have put in? Most people take out in benefits far more than they contribute....

[Always Call Heads]

Not entirely.  You're penalized significantly (if you're covered at all) if you go outside of your plan of providers - which is the main impediment of interstate coverage.

 

There are very few options in the exchanges presently.

Yes. That would not change with interstate coverage. The problem with interstate coverage is that the South Carolina insurance company has to go in and negotiate with each Oregon plan on an individual basis. So you would need to supplant the Oregon plan with the South Carolina plan because obviously the plans are not going to negotiate separate deals with the same insurance company. That is not worth it for the insurance company, so they just stay out of that market.

[Cdmx]

or they a few years shy of Medicare, wealthy, and would rather take their chances than pay 40k per year in premiums (couple)

 

 

These are the people that Obamacare most helps and that are going to get most fked now.   Premiums should not be anywhere near that high right now with the regulations in ACA.  My mom was paying ~$600 a month at 64.  The new law would probaly yes make that 40k a year for a couple.

 

You are taking your chances on death, BK, etc.  

[Cop]

I've known some. They either can't afford, or they a few years shy of Medicare, wealthy, and would rather take their chances than pay 40k per year in premiums (couple)

 

I see new plan still requiring people with PEC to be covered, but no limits on premium cost....is that right? Last time I got a quote on a personal plan it was $1600 per month (individual plan) because of prior herniated disc surgery and having being treated for depression. This was RIGHT before ACA took effect. I understand backs and depression are expensive conditions, and after Obamacare law....not plan...allowed me personal coverage at a cost of $500 per month out of pocket which was high, but I got it. When it went to $700 plus this year, I finally took the tax credit, which brought my payment down to $168 per month....that might be too generous for a lower deductible plan... But 1600 month is not right either.

 

Most single woman ..or men...don't have that kind of money or savings..even if you do, at 17kin premiums and 10k dollar per year deductibles, they may not for long. if something catastrophic happens, there is no Medicaid coverage in many states, so basically they are done.

 

NY Senator just said that 50-64 year olds will get clobbered.If 64 making 26k per year, premiums will go from approx 1700 to 13k per year.

If people are forced to spend their savings on health care premiums and deductibles, many won't have healthcare or will spend all their savings, and then will be broke when they get old, and Medicaid will be forced to pick up the 100k year skilled nursing costs.

 

Agree with Monkey OC should be tweaked instead of completely scrapped. Yes HC is an entitlement, but it's one that can be justified more than most to me...

 

Curious,..Cop are you going to turn down your Medicare benefits as soon as you reach the amount you have put in? Most people take out in benefits far more than they contribute....

Zero percentage chance I live long enough to spend what I've contributed.

[Cdmx]

My problem with this and any likely bill, is that it addresses who pays, not what they pay? The prices that are charged are the problem, blood tests that should cost $10 are billed at $150, ct scans that should cost $100 are $1000, etc. I would require health care providers to charge everyone the same negotiated prices that big users(ins co's) pay.

 

I thought you were a Republican?  

[Cdmx]

Zero percentage chance I live long enough to spend what I've contributed.

 

One major surgery/cancer etc. can easily run you up towards a million.   

[Always Call Heads]

 

Curious,..Cop are you going to turn down your Medicare benefits as soon as you reach the amount you have put in? Most people take out in benefits far more than they contribute....

Cop has been getting govt benefits his entire working career. Why would he stop with Medicare?

[MonkeyF0cker]

Yes. That would not change with interstate coverage. The problem with interstate coverage is that the South Carolina insurance company has to go in and negotiate with each Oregon plan on an individual basis. So you would need to supplant the Oregon plan with the South Carolina plan because obviously the plans are not going to negotiate separate deals with the same insurance company. That is not worth it for the insurance company, so they just stay out of that market.

 

I don't think you understand what I'm saying.  Revise the process.  No Oregon plans.  So South Carolina plans.  Inclusive interstate plans derived from individual insurance companies themselves.

[IAG]

These are the people that Obamacare most helps and that are going to get most fked now. Premiums should not be anywhere near that high right now with the regulations in ACA. My mom was paying ~$600 a month at 64. The new law would probaly yes make that 40k a year for a couple.

 

You are taking your chances on death, BK, etc.

 

No that is what some are paying precisely BECAUSE of Obamacare. I didn't believe it so I looked it up. If it wasn't 40k, it was close (Minnesota). They will be helped by repeal. These situations are the ones that made me support the repeal although it is detrimental to my personal situation.

But better that these persons tough it out for a few years than this diasaster being passed imo.

[Cdmx]

Zero percentage chance I live long enough to spend what I've contributed.

 

 

So here's a fun one.    My dad get's like 2k a month SS,   they take out almost $400 of that for Medicare.... Yet they tax him on the full 2k as income.    So you pay taxes im and then they tax you coming out.

[Cop]

Cop has been getting govt benefits his entire working career. Why would he stop with Medicare?

Wrong. We've been over this.

[Cdmx]

No that is what some are paying precisely BECAUSE of Obamacare. I didn't believe it so I looked it up. If it wasn't 40k, it was close (Minnesota). They will be helped by repeal. These situations are the ones that made me support the repeal although it is detrimental to my personal situation.

 

How?   ACA limits the amount you can charge more for older people than younger people.   That would not be the case in the new bill.  There is no way that it is true or that they are helped by appeal, older people are going to be paying way more than before.

[IAG]

How? ACA limits the amount you can charge more for older people than younger people. That would not be the case in the new bill. There is no way that it is true or that they are helped by appeal, older people are going to be paying way more than before.

Right but Obamacare doesn't limit on wealthy. Obamacare they got no help due to wealth,,new plan will be helped by age as income not considered. I dk know all the ins and outs but one of the biggest arguments for the new plan is to to stop things like the 400 percent premium increases since inception

[Always Call Heads]

No that is what some are paying precisely BECAUSE of Obamacare. I didn't believe it so I looked it up. If it wasn't 40k, it was close (Minnesota). They will be helped by repeal. These situations are the ones that made me support the repeal although it is detrimental to my personal situation.

But better that these persons tough it out for a few years than this diasaster being passed imo.

ObamaCare jacked up rates but those rates are greatly reduced by the subsidies. The only people that get helped by ObamaCare really are the poor that get cheap insurance that is basically worthless but they do get a doctors visit. And if they have a chronic condition, they can get that covered mostly at the expense of the govt. The people that get hammered are the self-employed that make a decent amount of money. They get slaughtered.

 

Now the people that get a free ride on ObamaCare are not going to get anything. They will get a tax credit but they will not know what that is and they will not be able to afford the insurance and cover it with the tax refund they would get.

 

Rates will come down on the plans but they will not be nearly as good. You will not get a doctor visit or preventive treatment.

 

In the end, the people that can be covered cheaply will not be covered. Their expenses will be absorbed by the people that pay for insurance with higher rates and everyone will eventually wind up paying more until they cry Uncle and decide to go for Medicare for All in 20 years.