El Chapo2017 Posted December 10, 2018 Report Share Posted December 10, 2018 Thoughts? https://sports.yahoo.com/lee-smith-harold-baines-elected-baseball-hall-fame-012223568.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Chapo2017 Posted December 10, 2018 Author Report Share Posted December 10, 2018 Something written by a guy about Baines' HOF case. The guy concluded that Baines was a NO vote. Anyway, Baines is in. ___________ Next up: Harold Baines The case for his induction: Harold Baines played for 22 seasons, amassed 2,866 hits and made the All-Star Game six times. He was a fantastically consistent hitter, posting an OPS+ of 108 or greater every single season between the ages of 22 and 40. He was also a durable player, not missing a whole heck of a lot of time to either injury or ineffectiveness until his late 30s. Even then he managed to hang around until he was 42-years-old. In the early part of his career, with the Chicago White Sox, he was the star of the team and the face of the organization The case against his induction: Yesterday we talked about Albert Belle, and how he had a Hall of Fame-worthy peak, but not enough longevity. Baines has the opposite problem. He played forever but there is no way anyone could ever say he was the best or one of the best players in the game at any given time. He simply had no elite peak to speak of. Baines led the league in exactly one offensive category in his long career: slugging percentage in 1984. He was rarely a top-10 finisher in the most important offensive categories. His highest finish in MVP balloting came in 1985 when he came in ninth. While Baines may have meant a lot to the White Sox in the first part of his career there is no way one can honestly argue that he was ever the best player in the game or even one of the best five, six or, usually, ten. Beyond that there are some softer factors which make him seem like less of a Hall of Famer than many. Over 1,600 of his 2,830 career games came at DH, which many voters discount, even if they shouldn’t. That said, if one is going to DH and one is still not among the league leaders in most offensive categories, it’s a knock. When he did play in the field he was a subpar defender. He appeared in the postseason in six different seasons but most of those came after his prime or when he was not the primary focus of his team’s offense. Only one of those appearances came in the World Series, with the Athletics in 1990. You don’t remember that? Well, there’s another knock against him: while Baines springs to mind as a member of the White Sox, he spent the final 13 years of his career bouncing back and forth around the league, making stops in Baltimore, Texas, Oakland, Cleveland and multiple return engagements with the Sox. We’re in a day and age when a player playing for lots of teams should not be considered a demerit, but it is often harder to get Hall of Fame traction when one did not star with one team for the majority of one’s career. Would I vote for him? No, can’t say that I would. Baines was a good, solid player for a very long time, but he was never truly great. Inner circle Hall-of-Very-Gooder, though. Will the Committee vote for him? Nope. Not a chance, I don’t think. But those of us who watched a lot of baseball in the 1980s still love ya, Harold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machiavelli Posted December 10, 2018 Report Share Posted December 10, 2018 Both are Hall of Very Good to me, but put up lengthy careers and gave a lot to the game of baseball. But, Halls of Fames are basically just museums anyway because if they wanted just the truly best of the best, then they'd be much, much tighter with who gets in. At the end of the day, though, it doesn't matter too much. If I had to choose, I'd prob be one to let more guys in and honor them for what they've done for the game than to be tighter, as again, it's really just a museum anyway. And I'd also prefer the Bo Jackson types over these guys because although Bo didn't put up anything close to a career of stats like these guys, his story is something that helps sell the game to a wide audience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Chapo2017 Posted December 10, 2018 Author Report Share Posted December 10, 2018 Both are Hall of Very Good to me, but put up lengthy careers and gave a lot to the game of baseball. But, Halls of Fames are basically just museums anyway because if they wanted just the truly best of the best, then they'd be much, much tighter with who gets in. At the end of the day, though, it doesn't matter too much. If I had to choose, I'd prob be one to let more guys in and honor them for what they've done for the game than to be tighter, as again, it's really just a museum anyway. And I'd also prefer the Bo Jackson types over these guys because although Bo didn't put up anything close to a career of stats like these guys, his story is something that helps sell the game to a wide audience.Well said about "Hall of the Very Good". Lee Smith had a much stronger case (All-Time Saves Leader at time of retirement). Baines' induction lowers the standard of the HOF. But, it will probably kick the door wide open for people like Edgar Martinez and Lou Whitaker, Etc. Jerry Reinsdorf seems to have had his finger on the scale for Baines. Baines, a six-time All-Star who produced 2,866 hits, 384 homers and 1,628 RBI, was strongly backed by Chicago White Sox owner Jerry Reinsdorf, who was one of 16 voters on the committee. Reinsdorf long has said that Baines was his all-time favorite player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeybagadonuts Posted December 10, 2018 Report Share Posted December 10, 2018 No way in hell Harold Baines belongs in. Don’t need to read that guys take to know that. Watched him play and he was always decent but not great Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjt Posted December 10, 2018 Report Share Posted December 10, 2018 White Sox players should be ineligible for the HOF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bfo Posted December 10, 2018 Report Share Posted December 10, 2018 Lee Smith deserving imo, guy was at or near the best at his position for a long time. Baines a different story, if you let him in you have to admit Edgar Martinez as well. Different eras but very similar players. Still too much reliance on pure batting statistics, I would rather see both Dwight and Darrell Evans in the Hall ahead of Baines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brock Landers Posted December 10, 2018 Report Share Posted December 10, 2018 Barry Bonds was the best player of the past 50 years minimum. He should be in immediately Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bfo Posted December 10, 2018 Report Share Posted December 10, 2018 Barry Bonds was the best player of the past 50 years minimum.He should be in immediatelyAgreed, both him and Clemens are automatics. McGwire and Sosa not so much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sol Aristatel Posted December 10, 2018 Report Share Posted December 10, 2018 McGwire not so much. You take that back. McGwire was a fucking stud before steroids. One of the best long ball hitters of all time. Not on Bonds level as a great player. But HOF worthy. Juice or no juice. Sammy is a fucking dweeb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeybagadonuts Posted December 10, 2018 Report Share Posted December 10, 2018 Barry Bonds was the best player of the past 50 years minimum. He should be in immediately1st good post you’ve ever made Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sol Aristatel Posted December 10, 2018 Report Share Posted December 10, 2018 Big Mac came clean too. Bonds and Clemens still lying. Fuck those guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brock Landers Posted December 10, 2018 Report Share Posted December 10, 2018 1st good post you’ve ever madeI saw the guy in person Got 1 good pitch to hit a game, home run Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sol Aristatel Posted December 10, 2018 Report Share Posted December 10, 2018 Bonds is a top 5 player of all time. He will pay for his lying. Just be honest and you get in. Simple as that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bfo Posted December 10, 2018 Report Share Posted December 10, 2018 You take that back. McGwire was a fucking stud before steroids. One of the best long ball hitters of all time. Not on Bonds level as a great player. But HOF worthy. Juice or no juice. Sammy is a fucking dweeb. Great home run hitter even before the steroids, but borderline HOF type. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brock Landers Posted December 10, 2018 Report Share Posted December 10, 2018 Big Mac came clean too. Bonds and Clemens still lying. Fuck those guys.the guy who developed the clear, did it 15 mins down the road from me. A chemist with no morals, but then again there is no hypacratic oath for chemists. The problem is, it worked too well. Was supposed to turn mid level players into top 10 players, but when elete players got it, they blew thru the roof. The shit worked incredibly well. http://www.news-gazette.com/news/local/2018-08-19/once-part-sports-dark-era-patrick-arnold-new-quest.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sol Aristatel Posted December 10, 2018 Report Share Posted December 10, 2018 Great home run hitter even before the steroids, but borderline HOF type. You son of a bitch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sol Aristatel Posted December 10, 2018 Report Share Posted December 10, 2018 I saw Big Mac hit one out of Chase Field in batting practice. Out of a window and out on the street. Only one to ever accomplish that. That shot deserves the HOF. Case closed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bfo Posted December 10, 2018 Report Share Posted December 10, 2018 I saw Big Mac hit one out of Chase Field in batting practice. Out of a window and out on the street. Only one to ever accomplish that. That shot deserves the HOF. Case closed. The one player he reminded me of most was Dave Kingman, who I saw hit a home run at Wrigley from his knees when he was fooled by a pitch. Different eras, but they were the 2 guys with the most power I ever saw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machiavelli Posted December 10, 2018 Report Share Posted December 10, 2018 1st good post you’ve ever made Was thinking the same....then saw you already posted it lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machiavelli Posted December 10, 2018 Report Share Posted December 10, 2018 The one player he reminded me of most was Dave Kingman, who I saw hit a home run at Wrigley from his knees when he was fooled by a pitch. Different eras, but they were the 2 guys with the most power I ever saw. Oooo good comp. Kingman fell just short, correct? Or like 50s percent at best? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Chapo2017 Posted December 10, 2018 Author Report Share Posted December 10, 2018 Oooo good comp. Kingman fell just short, correct? Or like 50s percent at best?Lol. No. Kingman was only on tbe ballot once (in 1992). He got 3 votes. 0.7% and fell off the ballot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWarning Posted December 10, 2018 Report Share Posted December 10, 2018 Growing up watching both Barnes and Lee Smith, I didn’t think either deserved it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Chapo2017 Posted December 10, 2018 Author Report Share Posted December 10, 2018 Growing up watching both Barnes and Lee Smith, I didn’t think either deserved it.Agreed. But, Smith at least had a good case. Baines' election was a horrible example of cronyism (thanks to Jerry Reinsdorf). Baines' Election is controversial and cheapens the Hall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Chapo2017 Posted December 10, 2018 Author Report Share Posted December 10, 2018 Good article trashing the Baines selection: https://www.si.com/mlb/2018/12/09/harold-baines-mlb-hall-fame-election Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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