WeinkeToWarrick Posted May 13, 2022 Report Share Posted May 13, 2022 The fundamental value and point of bitcoin is to take ownership of your own worth. To remove the need for a central third party. If you still fundamentally trust a third party more than yourself, your decision to send dollars to an exchange for a picture of an account balance and an unenforceable IOU is just speculative risk-on asset investing. That’s why Wall Street has sold off this past month+ too some day people will recognize that it is hard money though; and the only way to secure your own share of that hard money is by holding your private keys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeinkeToWarrick Posted May 13, 2022 Report Share Posted May 13, 2022 1 minute ago, IAG said: It’s very relevant to the issue of ownership. Not sure how I could sell something I didn’t own. You never owned it. You were issued an IOU that they approved as redeemable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAG Posted May 13, 2022 Report Share Posted May 13, 2022 Just now, WeinkeToWarrick said: You never owned it. You were issued an IOU that they approved as redeemable. Good enough for me. Lmao Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeinkeToWarrick Posted May 13, 2022 Report Share Posted May 13, 2022 Yep. Martingale works great until it doesn’t. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAG Posted May 13, 2022 Report Share Posted May 13, 2022 10 minutes ago, WeinkeToWarrick said: No, therein lies the beauty of peer to peer network Governments can still make it illegal if they chose and make things difficult. Issue is ease of circumvention. https://cryptobriefing.com/russian-banks-want-to-ban-self-custody-crypto-wallets/ https://www.numbrs.com/eus-vote-to-ban-cold-wallets-is-a-big-threat-to-the-use-of-self-custody-wallets/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeinkeToWarrick Posted May 13, 2022 Report Share Posted May 13, 2022 They can make it illegal and it will never work, just make things more annoying. More likely nations will legalize it as legal tender than ban it though. Game theory is in motion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Hoffa Posted May 13, 2022 Report Share Posted May 13, 2022 8 minutes ago, WeinkeToWarrick said: Bitcoin’s value prop is world’s apart from any others. It’s value is the value of freedom. Freedom of transaction is the precursor to all other freedoms and that is what bitcoin provides. How that gets priced in dollars fluctuates wildly due to major market manipulation by big players. Bitcoin or any other crypto coin's value is only what people are willing to pay for it W2W. If you think governments are going to allow us the freedom of anonymous transactions without taxation and regulation long-term I think that you're incorrect. Providing us that freedom would require their relinquishing of control, I don't think that's going to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeinkeToWarrick Posted May 13, 2022 Report Share Posted May 13, 2022 Prohibition sure kept everyone from drinking. Now imagine the alcohol could be stored on something the size of a USB drive Good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeinkeToWarrick Posted May 13, 2022 Report Share Posted May 13, 2022 Just now, Jimmy Hoffa said: Bitcoin or any other crypto coin's value is only what people are willing to pay for it W2W. If you think governments are going to allow us the freedom of anonymous transactions without taxation and regulation long-term I think that you're incorrect. Providing us that freedom would require their relinquishing of control, I don't think that's going to happen. They won’t willingly relinquish it but they won’t be able to control the spread and will ultimately succumb to embracing it when fiat fails Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FISHHEAD Posted May 13, 2022 Report Share Posted May 13, 2022 14 minutes ago, WeinkeToWarrick said: No, therein lies the beauty of peer to peer network It's been a GODSEND Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAG Posted May 13, 2022 Report Share Posted May 13, 2022 5 minutes ago, Jimmy Hoffa said: Bitcoin or any other crypto coin's value is only what people are willing to pay for it W2W. If you think governments are going to allow us the freedom of anonymous transactions without taxation and regulation long-term I think that you're incorrect. Providing us that freedom would require their relinquishing of control, I don't think that's going to happen. +1. I think W2W is stuck circa 2016. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Hoffa Posted May 13, 2022 Report Share Posted May 13, 2022 1 minute ago, WeinkeToWarrick said: Prohibition sure kept everyone from drinking. Now imagine the alcohol could be stored on something the size of a USB drive Good luck Still too speculative for me. Until a person can easily buy a pack of gum or soda at the corner store with cryptocurrency, it's acceptance is basically non-existent. So therefore the trading value is based on a "wouldn't it be great" scenario of global acceptance as legal tender sometime down the road. I don't think global acceptance is going to happen, banks and governments will not give up control of our global financial systems because we want freedom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeinkeToWarrick Posted May 13, 2022 Report Share Posted May 13, 2022 And Jimmy, I understand your argument. I really do. But do you think it’s the government’s place to tax a transaction between me and you? For a corporation to receive a cut of the amount? Not whether you think “that’s the way it works so swallow the pill”, but fundamentally, should me and you be allowed to transact without oversight, regulation, or friction-inducing costs? If you think we should be able to, you are on the road to understanding Bitcoin. And that idea can’t be put back in the bottle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeinkeToWarrick Posted May 13, 2022 Report Share Posted May 13, 2022 1 minute ago, Jimmy Hoffa said: Still too speculative for me. Until a person can easily buy a pack of gum or soda at the corner store with cryptocurrency, it's acceptance is basically non-existent. So therefore the trading value is based on a "wouldn't it be great" scenario of global acceptance as legal tender sometime down the road. I don't think global acceptance is going to happen, banks and governments will not give up control of our global financial systems because we want freedom. Strike is going to make this a reality sooner than you think Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Hoffa Posted May 13, 2022 Report Share Posted May 13, 2022 Just now, WeinkeToWarrick said: But do you think it’s the government’s place to tax a transaction between me and you? For a corporation to receive a cut of the amount? should me and you be allowed to transact without oversight, regulation, or friction-inducing costs? If you think we should be able to, you are on the road to understanding Bitcoin. And that idea can’t be put back in the bottle. Hell no it's not the governments place to interfere with commerce. But that won't stop them from trying to exert control and domination... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeinkeToWarrick Posted May 13, 2022 Report Share Posted May 13, 2022 2 minutes ago, IAG said: +1. I think W2W is stuck circa 2016. I think you enjoy the casino of the price action and not the fundamental freedom that bitcoin does and can provide. Ward of the state. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeinkeToWarrick Posted May 13, 2022 Report Share Posted May 13, 2022 Just now, Jimmy Hoffa said: Hell no it's not the governments place to interfere with commerce. But that won't stop them from trying to exert control and domination... And bitcoin is the people’s opportunity to oppose that exertion and domination Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAG Posted May 13, 2022 Report Share Posted May 13, 2022 Just now, WeinkeToWarrick said: And Jimmy, I understand your argument. I really do. But do you think it’s the government’s place to tax a transaction between me and you? For a corporation to receive a cut of the amount? Not whether you think “that’s the way it works so swallow the pill”, but fundamentally, should me and you be allowed to transact without oversight, regulation, or friction-inducing costs? If you think we should be able to, you are on the road to understanding Bitcoin. And that idea can’t be put back in the bottle. What taxes are you referring to? What corporations? I’m confused. Sales tax? Every crypto transaction currently triggers a taxable event which if there are gains since acquisition, you must pay. Those regulations are in place and that won’t go back into the bottle. That’s a reality that removes one of the biggest advantages of crypto for tax evaders prior to the new IRS regulations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAG Posted May 13, 2022 Report Share Posted May 13, 2022 12 minutes ago, WeinkeToWarrick said: I think you enjoy the casino of the price action and not the fundamental freedom that bitcoin does and can provide. Ward of the state. I haven’t looked at my portfolio in months. The pure libertarian ideal of BTC went away years ago. I initially believed in the same freedoms that you speak of now and mourn those days as I hate banks. That changed. That’s really when I lost interest. Obviously I enjoy action when going up, but have mourned the days when I thought it was a vehicle for large change. i now believe more than ever that it’s possible BTC was test run by US Govt to implement a cashless system for purposes of taxation…it was always traceable. Where you going to easily cash out your crypto to USD without KYC? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeinkeToWarrick Posted May 13, 2022 Report Share Posted May 13, 2022 I don’t plan on converting BTC to USD. The libertarian ideal has not gone away if you have your own wallet. Like I said originally, I don’t think you really get it. Why even keep any on an exchange at this point? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brock Landers Posted May 13, 2022 Report Share Posted May 13, 2022 24 minutes ago, IAG said: I haven’t looked at my portfolio in months. The pure libertarian ideal of BTC went away years ago. I initially believed in the same freedoms that you speak of now and mourn those days as I hate banks. That changed. That’s really when I lost interest. Obviously I enjoy action when going up, but have mourned the days when I thought it was a vehicle for large change. i now believe more than ever that it’s possible BTC was test run by US Govt to implement a cashless system for purposes of taxation…it was always traceable. Where you going to easily cash out your crypto to USD without KYC? blockchain.com convert to dollars, cash to bank located in Luxembourg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeybagadonuts Posted May 13, 2022 Report Share Posted May 13, 2022 22 minutes ago, Brock Landers said: blockchain.com convert to dollars, cash to bank located in Luxembourg Tunamelt.com covert Uber bucks to tuna melts located in the projects of east Champaign Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoke Posted May 13, 2022 Report Share Posted May 13, 2022 8 minutes ago, joeybagadonuts said: Tunamelt.com covert Uber bucks to tuna melts located in the projects of east Champaign Oh WOW brock!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richsox24 Posted May 13, 2022 Report Share Posted May 13, 2022 11 minutes ago, joeybagadonuts said: Tunamelt.com covert Uber bucks to tuna melts located in the projects of east Champaign Lmao Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAG Posted May 13, 2022 Report Share Posted May 13, 2022 47 minutes ago, WeinkeToWarrick said: I don’t plan on converting BTC to USD. The libertarian ideal has not gone away if you have your own wallet. Like I said originally, I don’t think you really get it. Why even keep any on an exchange at this point? I’ve explained. Until you can buy everyday items in BTC most people will want their profits in USD. and when you do trade/buy with crypto do you understand the tax Implications? Or are you just going to not pay taxes? No judgment, just curious. I get it. I got it years ago…but things have changed whether you want to accept it or not. And as if the tax refs years ago weren’t enough https://www.theverge.com/2021/11/8/22770798/biden-infrastructure-cryptocurrency-bitcoin-crypto-tax-irs-treasury Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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